Vamp bow...confused - Guild Wars Forums

TomD22 · Oct 12, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

I just decided to make a ranger rpg char. I remembered that in the course of his travels, my necro had picked up a 4/-1 vamp bow string. So i duly bought a max damage bow, and put the string (and a +hp grip) on it, and gave it to my new ranger to use. Only it really doesn't seem to be of any use. I just assumed vamp strings were good because they are valuable and sought-after. But as far as i can see there's no point. This is because in a fight, the health regen from hits is not quite enough to cover the degen. Even in a fight where i just pound away at an enemy, not getting hit in return or wasting any time with skills, i still end up with lower health. Not to mention losing all the health i do between battles. So i really don't understand what a vamp bow is for. I always kindof assumed that you put up with the degen between battles, because the health gain during them would be faster than the -1 degen, meaning you get healed a little during a battle. But as i said, i find it doesn't quite keep up. So i'm confused. Can anyone enlighten me? I must be missing something obvious.

St0rmy Days · Oct 12, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

You do 4 more damage per hit, as well. I personally find this more useful when PvPing.

Daegul Mistweaver · Oct 12, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Well, the 1st rule of vampiric/zealous weapons is that you swap them out when not in combat; that will help considerably.

There is annother item to consider when using vampiric weapons. Only 4:1 or 5:1 are worth using (3:1 in the case of axe/sword); and really 4:1 is only about to keep up with the degen if you have a fast weapon (short/flat bow) and probably an attack speed buff (tiger's/frenzy/flurry).

So, optimally to get the most out of vampiric, you need a 5:1 string, a short bow, and a haste skill in use.

Edit: Ah, as the above poster pointed out; the vampiric damage is extra damage that ignores armor...which is quite whorthwhile.

TomD22 · Oct 12, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Ah, i'd forgotten about the extra damage as well. Ok, thanks for the info, both

. I suppose that could be handy...but i'm not really sure it's worth the degen. Hmmmm.

TomD22 · Oct 12, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27

OK, so tell me about bows. I want a longbow for pulling / reaching running-away people in pvp. But for other times, like you say, a higher rate of fire is preferable...so do i want a short bow? a composite bow? something else? I've never played a ranger before, so i really don't know much about them

Fungus Amongus · Oct 12, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Try using it with attack speed skills. If you are just standing back and plinking with basic attacks it will not be too beneficial. But with Tiger's Fury and Barrage, you'll find the vampiric string to be worthwhile. If you fire Barrage at a mob, you can potentially (if you hit 6 targets) do an additional 24 total damage per shot and gain 24 health per shot.

Pardoz · Oct 12, 2005, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Vampiric mods do not, of course, actually add any damage, armour-ignoring or otherwise; they just convert (x) points of damage from regular to life-stealing.

Never put a vamp mod on your primary weapon; carry it as a swap. That way you don't start combat half dead from the constant -1 degen.

On bows, vamp. mods should be used on a fast bow - short or flat - ideally in combination with an IAS skill like Tiger's Fury, a multi-shot skill like Dual Shot or Barrage, or Quick Shot. Even then, just about any other string is probably more useful for most builds (to get the most use out of a vamp. string, try going /Necro secondary and use IAS vampiric Duals/Barrages to regain life after using Necro sacrifice skills).

Jenosavel · Oct 12, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomD22

OK, so tell me about bows. I want a longbow for pulling / reaching running-away people in pvp. But for other times, like you say, a higher rate of fire is preferable...so do i want a short bow? a composite bow? something else? I've never played a ranger before, so i really don't know much about them

Check out the different bows stats here. A Shortbow or Halfmoon is the best for getting the most attacks off in battle. The Composite is great for interruptors, and the Hornbow has an innate armor penetration (good with Barrage and buffs like Conjure). If you're operating under Read the Wind or Favorable Winds you might want to consider a Flatbow.

Daegul Mistweaver · Oct 12, 2005, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pardoz

Vampiric mods do not, of course, actually add any damage, armour-ignoring or otherwise; they just convert (x) points of damage from regular to life-stealing.

I beg to differ. I'll refer you to Ensign's detailed commentary from a different thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Well there are a bunch of reasons why people perfer Sundering / Fortitude over Vampiric / Defense. Fortitude is a very visible upgrade that might be ultimately misunderstood but the effect is still really obvious. Defense? Who knows what that does? Plus Fortitude is more rare, and people have learned to associated rarity with quality for some reason. Granted even if you do know the difference there are reasons to run Fortitude over Defense, but Defense is still seriously underappreciated.

Vampiric vs. Sundering have the same sorts of issues - perfect Sundering is more rare (rare = good!), and while its effect isn't very visible the visibility on Vampiric is terrible. All players actually see is the -1 health degen and the +health they get when they hit someone. The extra damage inflicted by the weapon is completely invisible to the user - the target sees it just fine, with the -3 or -5 Vampiric popping up with each hit. But for a naive user Vampiric would just appear to work like Zealous, costing you health and giving back a bit per hit, which would make it poor.

Plus I'm sure a bunch of people use Sundering over Vampiric just because of the health degen - they don't want to weapon swap and anything with a drawback is inherently bad.

Or something, I'm not good at reading the mind of the average newbie. I'm just sure that there are reasons why people prefer what they do, even if it doesn't make any mathematical sense.

Peace,
-CxE

mr_boo · Oct 12, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pardoz

Vampiric mods do not, of course, actually add any damage, armour-ignoring or otherwise; they just convert (x) points of damage from regular to life-stealing.

Are you certain about this Pardoz? From what I understood, Vampiric adds extra damage, not convert.

Penguins Will Fly · Oct 13, 2005, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Yes, vampiric mods do add damage. I believe in the desert missions along with several other areas, certain enemies (can't rememember which exactly) have vamp mods on their weapons, which becomes apparent when they attack you and you see a -1 vamp dmg floating over your head along side they regular damage they deal you.

Pardoz · Oct 13, 2005, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_boo

Are you certain about this Pardoz? From what I understood, Vampiric adds extra damage, not convert.

Quite certain. Feel free to test it yourself - easiest way is with a cheap melee weapon, a cheap (-1) vampiric mod, and Wild Blow (since WB always does a crit, the damage will be the same during your tests). Find an easily accessed spot with a single monster, attack with a Wild Blow with an unmodded weapon, note down damage number. Mod the same weapon with a vamp mod and repeat. You'll see the same total damage. What confuses people is that when you're attacked with a vamp. weapon you see, for example, -20 damage and -5 life stealing; if it had been a regular attack you would just have seen -25 damage.

mr_boo · Oct 13, 2005, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pardoz

Quite certain. Feel free to test it yourself - easiest way is with a cheap melee weapon, a cheap (-1) vampiric mod, and Wild Blow (since WB always does a crit, the damage will be the same during your tests). Find an easily accessed spot with a single monster, attack with a Wild Blow with an unmodded weapon, note down damage number. Mod the same weapon with a vamp mod and repeat. You'll see the same total damage. What confuses people is that when you're attacked with a vamp. weapon you see, for example, -20 damage and -5 life stealing; if it had been a regular attack you would just have seen -25 damage.

I'll have to do what you say and test it out for myself. It just doesn't make any sense Pardoz because some of the Ranger Spike Teams from pretty reputable guilds have their rangers all use Vampiric Mods. If they aren't use the Vampiric Mods for damage, what the heck would they be using it for? Certainly not for the life benefits.

Oct 12, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19	#1
TomD22 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2005	Vamp bow...confused I just decided to make a ranger rpg char. I remembered that in the course of his travels, my necro had picked up a 4/-1 vamp bow string. So i duly bought a max damage bow, and put the string (and a +hp grip) on it, and gave it to my new ranger to use. Only it really doesn't seem to be of any use. I just assumed vamp strings were good because they are valuable and sought-after. But as far as i can see there's no point. This is because in a fight, the health regen from hits is not quite enough to cover the degen. Even in a fight where i just pound away at an enemy, not getting hit in return or wasting any time with skills, i still end up with lower health. Not to mention losing all the health i do between battles. So i really don't understand what a vamp bow is for. I always kindof assumed that you put up with the degen between battles, because the health gain during them would be faster than the -1 degen, meaning you get healed a little during a battle. But as i said, i find it doesn't quite keep up. So i'm confused. Can anyone enlighten me? I must be missing something obvious.

Oct 12, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23	#2
St0rmy Days Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: The Z Fighters Profession: E/Mo	You do 4 more damage per hit, as well. I personally find this more useful when PvPing.

Oct 12, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24	#3
Daegul Mistweaver Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: The Incredible Edible Bookah [YUM] Profession: W/N	Well, the 1st rule of vampiric/zealous weapons is that you swap them out when not in combat; that will help considerably. There is annother item to consider when using vampiric weapons. Only 4:1 or 5:1 are worth using (3:1 in the case of axe/sword); and really 4:1 is only about to keep up with the degen if you have a fast weapon (short/flat bow) and probably an attack speed buff (tiger's/frenzy/flurry). So, optimally to get the most out of vampiric, you need a 5:1 string, a short bow, and a haste skill in use. Edit: Ah, as the above poster pointed out; the vampiric damage is extra damage that ignores armor...which is quite whorthwhile.

Oct 12, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25	#4
TomD22 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2005	Ah, i'd forgotten about the extra damage as well. Ok, thanks for the info, both . I suppose that could be handy...but i'm not really sure it's worth the degen. Hmmmm.

Oct 12, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27	#5
TomD22 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2005	OK, so tell me about bows. I want a longbow for pulling / reaching running-away people in pvp. But for other times, like you say, a higher rate of fire is preferable...so do i want a short bow? a composite bow? something else? I've never played a ranger before, so i really don't know much about them

Oct 12, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29	#6
Fungus Amongus Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare] \| [Rare] Alliance	Try using it with attack speed skills. If you are just standing back and plinking with basic attacks it will not be too beneficial. But with Tiger's Fury and Barrage, you'll find the vampiric string to be worthwhile. If you fire Barrage at a mob, you can potentially (if you hit 6 targets) do an additional 24 total damage per shot and gain 24 health per shot.

Oct 12, 2005, 09:23 PM // 21:23	#7
Pardoz Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2005	Vampiric mods do not, of course, actually add any damage, armour-ignoring or otherwise; they just convert (x) points of damage from regular to life-stealing. Never put a vamp mod on your primary weapon; carry it as a swap. That way you don't start combat half dead from the constant -1 degen. On bows, vamp. mods should be used on a fast bow - short or flat - ideally in combination with an IAS skill like Tiger's Fury, a multi-shot skill like Dual Shot or Barrage, or Quick Shot. Even then, just about any other string is probably more useful for most builds (to get the most use out of a vamp. string, try going /Necro secondary and use IAS vampiric Duals/Barrages to regain life after using Necro sacrifice skills).

Oct 13, 2005, 01:56 AM // 01:56	#11
Penguins Will Fly Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Sep 2005 Guild: exiled titans Profession: W/Mo	Yes, vampiric mods do add damage. I believe in the desert missions along with several other areas, certain enemies (can't rememember which exactly) have vamp mods on their weapons, which becomes apparent when they attack you and you see a -1 vamp dmg floating over your head along side they regular damage they deal you.